The “Breath-Wind Magicians” from the Early Upanishads: A Conversation with A. I.

An Excerpt from, “The Naturalistic Tradition in Indian Thought”; by Dale Riepe:

“The point of view represented by Uddalaka appears to have been that of the Breath-Wind Magicians who held, as opposed to their idealistic opponents, that the breath rather than thought or words was the most important element of the human being: briefly, a distinction between holding stuff rather than thought to be primary. Of such Breath-Wind Magicians who foreshadow the later clear-cut naturalistic outlook, there are at least eighteen among the one hundred thinkers mentioned in the oldest Upanishads. That would mean that roughly 18 per cent of the characters mentioned in compositions written before 626 B. C. tended toward a naturalistic interpretation of life. The more important of these include Ushasti, Baka, Kaushitaki, Raikva, Pratrda, Budkil, and Paingya. Ushasti, Budila, Baka, and Raikva are mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad; Kaushitaki, Paingya, and the Anonymous One, in the Kaushitaki Upanishad; and the same Budila, in the Satapathabrahmana. Ushasti and the other Breath-Wind Magicians believed in rather earthly deities and tried to explain phenomena in terms of the fluctuations of breath and air instead of supernatural activities.” 

QUESTION to A.I.:

….. The preceding quote is regarding a class of thinkers or “magicians” — breath-wind magicians — in the early Upanishads. Could you please research these “breath-wind magicians” and give me a rundown of their ideas and activities within the Upanishads?

GEMINI A.I.:

Okay, this is a fascinating quote and provides a specific lens through which to view certain Upanishadic thinkers. The author of your book categorizes a group as "Breath-Wind Magicians," emphasizing their focus on prana (breath or vital energy) and vayu (wind/air) as the fundamental principle of life, often in a way that could be seen as more "naturalistic" compared to purely idealistic philosophies focusing on thought or consciousness alone. The term "magician" likely refers to their profound understanding and perceived ability to influence or explain the world through these powerful, vital forces, rather than literal sorcery in most cases.

Let's explore the individuals mentioned and their ideas and activities as depicted in the early Upanishads, keeping in mind this "Breath-Wind Magician" framework:

General Characteristics of the "Breath-Wind Magicians" (as per the quote):

• Primacy of Breath/Wind: They held that breath (prana/vayu) is the most important element in a human being and the cosmos, more so than thought (manas) or speech (vak).

• Naturalistic Outlook: They tended to explain phenomena through the functions and fluctuations of breath and air, rather than relying solely on supernatural beings or activities for causation, though they acknowledged "earthly deities."

• Contrast with Idealism: Their views were opposed to more purely "idealistic" schools that might have prioritized consciousness or abstract principles.

• Esoteric Knowledge: Understanding and potentially manipulating prana was a source of power and insight, hence the "magician" label, suggesting a mastery over vital, subtle energies.

Here's a rundown of the mentioned figures and their likely connection to these ideas:

1. Ushasti Chakrayana (Chāndogya Upanishad I.10-11)

• Role & Story: Ushasti is depicted as a learned but impoverished Brahmin during a famine. He confronts priests performing a sacrifice, challenging their knowledge of the deities to whom the chants are addressed. He reveals that if they chant without knowing the underlying deity, their "head would fall off."

• Connection to Breath/Wind & Deities:

• When asked which deity pertains to the prastava (introductory chant), he names Prana (Breath). He states, "Verily, all these beings enter into breath, and out of breath they arise."

• For the udgitha (main chant), he names Aditya (the Sun) as the deity, which is closely linked to energy and life.

• For the pratihara (concluding chant), he names Anna (Food), which sustains breath and life.

• Thinking & Activity: Ushasti emphasizes the fundamental importance of Prana as the ultimate support and origin/destination of all beings. His knowledge gives him power over others in a ritual context. He links Prana to specific parts of the sacrifice, showing its centrality. The "earthly deities" aspect is seen in his identification of Prana, Aditya, and Anna as the presiding forces, which are more tangible or perceivable compared to an abstract, formless Brahman initially. His challenge to the priests suggests a deep, perhaps esoteric, understanding of the true meaning behind rituals, centered on vital forces.

2. Baka Dalbhya / Glava Maitreya (Chāndogya Upanishad I.12)

• Role & Story: He is described as having gone to a quiet place to repeat the Vedas. A white dog appears, followed by other dogs, all asking the white dog to procure food for them by chanting. The white dog (interpreted by some as Baka himself or a symbolic representation) then begins the Hinkāra (a preliminary vocalization in Sama Veda chants) with the syllable "Om," and the dogs chant, "Om, let us eat! Om, let us drink!..."

• Connection to Breath/Wind & Deities: This rather unusual story, known as the "dogs' udgitha," is often interpreted as a satire on priests who chant for material gain. However, it also subtly points to the life-sustaining aspect of chanting and its connection to basic needs, which are intrinsically linked to Prana (life energy). The sounds and chants themselves are carried by breath. While not directly about prana as a cosmic principle in the same way as Ushasti, the focus on the power of sound (produced by breath) for sustenance has a "naturalistic" or pragmatic undertone. The "earthly deities" here are not explicitly named, but the desire for food and drink reflects fundamental life needs.

• Thinking & Activity: Baka's story highlights the power inherent in sacred utterances and their connection to life's basic necessities. It can be seen as an early exploration of the potency of sound and breath, perhaps hinting at practices that use sound for material or vital ends.

3. Kaushitaki (Kaushītaki Upanishad)

• Role & Story: The Kaushītaki Upanishad is named after him, or perhaps a lineage. The text itself contains extensive discussions on Prana. Pratardana's dialogue with Indra (see below) is a key part of this Upanishad.

• Connection to Breath/Wind: The Kaushītaki Upanishad is a primary source for doctrines exalting Prana.

• It explicitly identifies Prana as Brahman (Kaush. Up. 2.1, 2.2).

• It describes Prana as the chief among the vital functions (speech, sight, hearing, mind), stating that all others depend on it. When prana departs, all others depart.

• It details the "Dialogue of the Vital Breaths" where prana proves its superiority over other senses/faculties.

• The "Paryanka Vidya" (doctrine of the couch) in this Upanishad describes the soul's journey after death, where understanding Prana is crucial.

• Thinking & Activity: Thinkers associated with the Kaushitaki school clearly elevated Prana to the highest philosophical status, equating it with the ultimate reality, Brahman. They engaged in detailed analysis of Prana's functions, its relationship to other senses, and its cosmological significance. This represents a profound systematization of "breath-centric" philosophy.

4. Raikva (Chāndogya Upanishad IV.1-3)

• Role & Story: Raikva, known as "Raikva with the cart," is depicted as a seemingly humble man, found scratching his itches under a cart. King Janashruti Pautrayana, despite his generosity, is told by swans that his fame is less than Raikva's. Janashruti seeks him out to learn from him.

• Connection to Breath/Wind: Raikva teaches that Vayu (Wind/Air) is the great "absorber" or "gatherer-unto-itself" (samvarga). "For when fire goes out, it goes into Vayu. When the sun sets, it goes into Vayu. When the moon sets, it goes into Vayu. When water dries up, it goes into Vayu. Vayu, verily, absorbs them all." He then extends this to the microcosm: Prana (Breath) is the absorber in the individual. "When a man sleeps, speech goes into Prana, sight goes into Prana, hearing goes into Prana, mind goes into Prana. Prana, verily, absorbs them all."

• Thinking & Activity: Raikva's teaching provides a clear instance of explaining cosmic and individual phenomena through a natural element (Vayu/Prana). He establishes a direct analogy between the macrocosm (Vayu absorbing cosmic elements) and the microcosm (Prana absorbing bodily functions). This is a strong example of the "naturalistic" interpretation mentioned in the quote. He is sought out for his wisdom, which is tied to this understanding of Vayu/Prana as the ultimate absorbent principle.

5. Pratrda / Pratardana Daivodāsi (Kaushītaki Upanishad III)

• Role & Story: King Pratardana comes to Indra's abode and is granted a boon. Pratardana wisely asks Indra to choose the boon that Indra deems most beneficial for mankind. Indra declares, "Prana, verily, is consciousness (prajñātman)... Meditate on me as life, as immortality."

• Connection to Breath/Wind: Indra (a prominent "earthly deity" or a high god in the Vedic pantheon) reveals to Pratardana that Prana is Prajñātman (conscious self, intelligence-self). Indra states, "I am Prana... He who meditates on me as life, as immortality, reaches his full term of life in this world and obtains immortality and indestructibility in the heavenly world." The dialogue extensively explores how Prana is identical with consciousness and underpins all sensory functions and life itself.

• Thinking & Activity: This section is a cornerstone of Prana-vidya (knowledge of Prana). Pratardana elicits from Indra the profound teaching that Prana is not just vital air but also the very essence of consciousness and immortality. This identifies Prana with the highest principle of individual existence and links it directly to a powerful deity, Indra, who embodies this vital force. This aligns with the "earthly deities" and the supreme importance of breath.

6. Budila Āshvatarāshvi (Chāndogya Upanishad V.19.1 & Shātapatha Brāhmana XI.6.2.1-10)

• Role & Story (Chāndogya): In the context of the Vaishvanara Vidya (doctrine of the Universal Self), Budila, along with other sages, approaches King Ashvapati Kaikeya for instruction. Budila's specific contribution or question in this section of the Chāndogya is part of a larger dialogue about the nature of Atman Vaishvanara.

• Role & Story (Shātapatha Brāhmana): The Shātapatha Brāhmana (a prose commentary on the Vedas, pre-dating but also overlapping with early Upanishads) contains a story where Budila Āshvatarāshvi discusses the Agnihotra sacrifice with sages. He is questioned about the nature of sleep and waking, and he explains that when a person sleeps, their speech, sight, mind, and hearing enter into prana, and upon waking, they re-emerge from prana. This is very similar to Raikva's teaching.

• Connection to Breath/Wind: In the Shātapatha Brāhmana, Budila explicitly describes Prana as the entity into which all sensory and mental functions merge during sleep and from which they arise upon waking. This emphasizes Prana as the sustaining force of individual consciousness and faculties.

• Thinking & Activity: Budila is presented as a knowledgeable sage participating in high-level philosophical discussions (Vaishvanara Vidya) and as an authority on the significance of Prana in the context of fundamental life processes like sleep and waking, as well as its connection to sacrificial understanding.

7. Paingya (Kaushītaki Upanishad & possibly the lost Paingya Upanishad)

• Role & Story: Paingya is mentioned in the Kaushītaki Upanishad (e.g., 2.5 in some recensions) as a proponent of certain views, often related to prana or the relative importance of different vital functions. The "Paingya Rahasya Brahmana" or "Paingya Upanishad" is a lost text, but references to Paingya's doctrines exist.

• Connection to Breath/Wind: Doctrines attributed to Paingya often center on the supremacy of Prana. For example, there's an account where different vital functions (speech, eye, ear, mind) depart one by one to see if the body can survive without them, but only when Prana begins to depart do all other functions weaken, thus establishing Prana's supremacy. This is a classic "dialogue of the vital breaths" motif found in several Upanishads.

• Thinking & Activity: Paingya appears to be a significant figure in the lineage of thinkers who systematically argued for the primacy of Prana. His teachings likely involved illustrative stories and arguments to demonstrate Prana's foundational role in sustaining life and all other bodily and sensory functions.

8. The Anonymous One (in Kaushītaki Upanishad)

• The Kaushītaki Upanishad contains many passages exalting Prana that are not attributed to a specific sage but are presented as established teachings. For example:

• "Prana is indeed Brahman" (Kaush. Up. 2.1).

• The detailed description of the "Prana Agnihotra" (Kaush. Up. 2.5 in some editions), an internalized "fire sacrifice" where one offers one's breath and speech to Prana, recognizing Prana as the recipient of all offerings. This is a powerful example of ritual internalization centered on breath.

• The idea that all deities are manifestations of Prana, or that Prana is the life of the gods (e.g., Kaush. Up. 2.2, linking Prana to Indra and Prajapati).

Summary of Ideas and Activities:

The thinkers listed (and the anonymous teachings) engaged in:

1. Philosophical Inquiry & Debate: They actively questioned and debated the fundamental constituents of reality and human existence, often championing Prana/Vayu against other principles like mind or speech.

2. Observation of Natural Processes: Their emphasis on breath/wind suggests an observation of physiological processes (breathing, life, death, sleep) and natural phenomena (wind, sun, fire) to draw conclusions about the cosmos. This underpins the "naturalistic" label.

3. Cosmological Analogies: They frequently drew parallels between the microcosm (the individual human being and their Prana) and the macrocosm (the universe and Vayu/cosmic Prana), as seen with Raikva and Budila.

4. Reinterpretation & Internalization of Ritual: Some, like Ushasti, emphasized understanding the true deities (like Prana) behind rituals. The Prana Agnihotra in the Kaushītaki Upanishad is a prime example of internalizing external Vedic sacrifices into meditative practices focused on breath.

5. Teaching & Discipleship: Figures like Raikva, Ushasti, and those within the Kaushītaki tradition were sought out as teachers for their profound knowledge.

6. Association with Deities: They often linked Prana/Vayu to specific Vedic deities (Indra, Vayu, Aditya, Prajapati), interpreting these deities as personifications or controllers of these vital forces, thus connecting with "earthly" or at least more tangible divine powers.

7. Developing "Prana Vidya" (Science of Breath): Collectively, they contributed to a sophisticated body of knowledge about Prana, its functions, its control, and its philosophical implications. This "vidya" (knowledge/science) could be seen as the basis for the "magician" epithet, as mastery of this knowledge implied mastery over life's fundamental forces.

The term "Breath-Wind Magicians," as used by the author of your book, seems to aptly capture this group's focus on the tangible, vital, and powerful forces of breath and wind, often explaining life and the cosmos through their workings, and potentially engaging in practices that harnessed this understanding. Their approach was indeed a distinct and influential current within the diverse tapestry of early Upanishadic thought.

Shambhala

The Kingdom of Shambhala is a peripheral subject within the Kalacakratantra, a Highest Yoga Tantra of Tibetan Buddhism. The Kingdom is described as a quasi-mythical (some say real) region on Earth not far from Tibet. Shambhala is ruled by a succession of kings, kings who rule a populace all dedicated to the practice of the Kalacakratantra: the quick Path to Enlightenment.

 

Like in the popular classic movie, Shangri-La, Shambhala is not easy to find. The journey to this mythical Kingdom is said to be either by means of long, difficult, and dangerous travel; or alternatively through a rigorous process of inner, spiritual development.

 

FINDING THE INNER SHAMBHALA

 

“Now He (Jesus) was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

 

— Luke 17:20

 

In reality , like the “Kingdom of God”, the Kingdom of Shambhala, is somewhere nearby, close, yet in another dimension; accessible only via a particular inner spiritual development. Popular religious thought might consider one’s entry into paradise to be dependent upon obtaining a metaphorical golden ticket, a ticket maybe consisting of possessing the “correct belief”. However, there’s no shortcut for anyone getting past the essential hard work of mental/emotional introspection. There is no easy way around the journey’s first spiritual task: that of facing oneself and reflecting upon one’s own downfalls and shortcomings.

 

THE OUTER REFLECTS THE INNER

 

One thing that is essential to consider, when looking to find any spiritual location or higher-dimensional location, is that a place of refined spirituality is invariably also highly organized and structured in some way. The residents of any spiritual location would also have to invariably possess, in their inner make up, a reflection of the spiritual structure and organization of their outer paradise. There are no outlaws in paradise.

 

One could alternatively say, that when the internal spiritual structure of a person starts to gel or crystallize into an organized pattern, the outer environment of that same person — in a correspondence — begins to gel and crystallize spiritually, as well. In other words, The outer world starts to reflect that person’s improved inner reality.

 

THE WAY

 

This inner evolution resulting into entry into a new spiritual dimension can not be accomplished through any of our usual discursive thinking, or through our lower desires relating to the outer physical body.

 

The entry to a higher dimensional life begins first of all, with resisting against inner mechanicalness. It starts with work creating an inner friction, a struggle between ‘yes’ and ‘no’ within the framework of daily life. The journey starts with the effort to make good inner choices. This is the so-called “Spiritual Jihad”, or personal struggle with oneself.

 

Then next, the second leg of progression higher involves the creation of actual metaphysical “organs” or centers within the body. These are “centers of gravity” made from the raw  substances of emotion and thought. These are inner structures of feeling and thinking which amass — through hard spiritual work — more and more “Being and Knowledge”. The more Being and Knowledge one accumulates, the more spiritual and refined becomes one’s feeling and thinking. (“Being”, here, represents the evolution of the emotions; and “Knowledge” represents evolution of the intellect and consciousness.)

 

THE STRUCTURE OF OUR INNER & OUTER REALITY 

 

The Buddhists postulate a tripartite structure of Reality. That is, they say our world has three qualities, all bound together inseparably, but on three successively higher levels. The three qualities or levels are 1. Materiality or Desire 2. Function or Meaning, and 3. Spirit or Holiness.

 

The first aspect or quality of reality is what the Buddhists call the desire realm, which is the world where we live our everyday lives. Its disorganization reflects our inner confusion. It is a place of flux and impermanence, of inner and outer “no-self”.

 

The second dimensional aspect, that of function and meaning, correlates to what the Buddhists call the form realm. Form realm elements would include those same elements which the Mahayana Buddhists practice and struggle to accumulate: the six perfections (generosity, morality, patience, joyful effort, concentration, & wisdom).

 

When a human being has, through sustained effort, developed some inner structure, or rather, to put it another way, developed a maturity that incorporates the foregoing six qualities, then a corresponding higher, outer environment emerges in relation to that inner structure. The elements of the desire realm are then purified for that human being, and he/she at that time exists in the form realm.

 

The effort of creating an inner structure, in alignment with one’s higher aims, is known as the art of making a soul. And the first step in this process of construction is recognizing one’s own mental impermanence, the flux of one’s own thoughts and desires — all arising, abiding, and ceasing in reaction to the outer world. Once this realization dawns, then it becomes possible to create stable centers of feeling and thinking out of these fluid elements.

 

When the soul is built or created out of the spiritual elements of the form realm, and when it has finally been completed, then the form realm itself magically appears in the outer surrounding environment.

 

The third aforesaid dimension of Reality — that of Spirit or Holiness — is essentially what the Buddhists call the formless realm. It is called formless because within it there is no duality, no separation between subject and object, between the observer and the observed. And further, at this level man himself is divine.

 

HIGHER BODIES; HIGHER WORLDS

 

The Greek-Armenian teacher G. I. Gurdjieff spoke of the possibility of developing higher bodies; bodies evolved out of our inner mental/emotional potential. Each higher body is somehow connected to its corresponding higher world, each body effectively residing in each of these higher realms. Gurdjieff’s 4th and highest body, the “Divine Body”, when developed, exists in a divine segment of Reality: what the Buddhists denote as a pure realm or Buddha realm.

 

INCLUSIVE OF ALL

 

The Buddhist Tantrics do strive to achieve Buddhahood in one lifetime. But they strive not just for themselves. They create a virtual universe, or mandala, around themselves, encompassing all reality and all living beings. All sentient beings are then included in their infinitely radiating bliss and omniscience.

 

We all potentially live in our own slice of the Kingdom of Shambhala. Through inner struggle and a focused effort, our world can gradually shift into a more spiritual realm, into that ultimately pure dimension, just a hair’s breadth away from us. We can live in a universe of a different quality, only a single dimension distant from us.

Gurdjieff’s Bodies, in a Buddhist Context

rūpadhātu. (T. gzugs khams; C. sejie; J. shikikai; K. saekkye 色界).

In Sanskrit and Pāli, the “realm of subtle materiality” or “form realm,” which together with the sensuous, or desire, realm (KĀMADHĀTU) and the immaterial, or formless, realm (ĀRŪPYADHĀTU) constitute the three realms (TRAIDHĀTUKA) of SAṂSĀRA; the term is synonymous with rūpāvacara. The subtle-materiality realm is located above the heavens of the sensuous realm, which are situated on and above Mount SUMERU. 

This realm is divided into four meditative heavens associated with the four meditative concentrations of the subtle-materiality realm (RŪPĀVACARADHYĀNA). These meditative heavens are places of rebirth in saṃsāra and are accessible only through mastery of a specific rūpāvacaradhyāna; the beings reborn there are classified as BRAHMĀ gods. 

Rebirth in these meditative heavens is the result of a specific kind of virtuous action, called an “immovable action” (S. ANIÑJYAKARMAN), in which the action has the definite and specific effect of bringing about rebirth in either the subtle-materiality or immaterial heavens.

… the fourth meditative heaven of the subtle-materiality realm is considered an ideal state from which to achieve NIRVĀṆA: for example, when the Buddha entered PARINIRVĀṆA, his mind passed through each of the four subtle-materiality and immaterial absorptions before passing into nirvāṇa directly from the fourth absorption.

— Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism

On the left, from Moon to Absolute, is the Ray of Creation. On the right are the four bodies which correspond to their appropriate world on the Ray. Far right are listed the laws under which the bodies are subject — the progressively higher the body, the progressively fewer the laws.

The hierarchy of Worlds interpenetrate one another; our own world of “Earth” — correlating with the Buddhist Desire Realm — contains all the other worlds in subtle form. At a more evolved level, that of a being possessing the Astral Body (sambhogakaya), that being is aware of the Astral World (Buddhist Form Realm), while touching simultaneously the lower Desire Realm at necessary times. Similarly, a possessor of a Mental Body (dharmakaya) inhabits the Formless Realm while living upon the Earth, while necessarily touching the lower two realms also.

A BRIEF OUTLINE OF GURDJIEFF’S BODIES

“You all understand that a man is not merely his physical body. What is really the man himself is the psychological man who lives in the physical body. The formation of further bodies refers to the psychological not to the physical man. They refer to the centres in Man which are psychological. The organization of the centres constitutes the basis of the formation of further bodies that can survive the death of the physical body.”

— Nicoll Commentaries p. 226

Gurdjieff acknowledges the physical body as the foundation for and the birthplace of the three higher bodies. However, within the material body are nascent “centers” of functioning which allow for emotions and intellectuality. These centers, when developed, have the potential to produce ever deeper inner phenomena such as compassion and loving-kindness in the emotional center, and an elevated consciousness along with the direct perception of objective reality in the intellectual center.

It is out of these centers’ development and functioning that the higher bodies themselves can take form. 

The second body is the emotional body. Theoretically it grows out of the seed of the middle division of the emotional center: that inner part of us that produces religious emotions and which generates a conscience. This body also consists of astral material which is produced by the breath; including the substance of animal magnetism (i.e. astral light), which makes up a large part of this body.

The third body is known as the mental body. It develops out of the seed of the inner division of the intellectual center. It consists of the extraordinarily fine matters of the impressions we receive. As the name suggests, though, the intellectual center is to a degree created also with the substance of “intellect” itself (Sanskrit: buddhi, Mahat). Consciousness, which Gurdjieff describes as being material, is also a very large part of the three centers making up the nucleus of the mental body.

The fourth body is known as the divine body. Theoretically, it consists of “divine” material adopted from the environment, rather than matter produced through a transformation of “foods” brought in to the physical body. Each level on the ray of creation has evolved one or more “deities” — progressively more divine at each higher level — which consist partially of matters appropriate to that level, and which can contribute divine material to the corresponding higher body, which exists at that same level.

(The Buddhist title, “His Holiness”, often describes an actual quality of holiness that the holder of the title has acquired. My own Lama had the “perfume” of a very real holiness at certain times, which was palpable. The perfected divine body also is infused with the fragrance of holiness.)

MIND VS. DEVELOPMENT OF “KNOWLEDGE & BEING”

“…channels are subtle pathways extending throughout the body through which the volatile winds move. Since winds and mind are fused in tantric theory, the channels are the pathways not only for winds, but also for the mind that rides on those winds. Therefore, channels are the avenues by which the mind comes to pervade the entire body.”

— Secrets of the Vajra Body: Dngos po'i gnas lugs and the Apotheosis of the Body in the work of Rgyal ba Yang dgon pa (A dissertation by Willa Blythe Miller)

The intellectual center, and also the emotional center, should not be confused with the “mind” (Sanskrit: manas). The mind is a partner of the inner energies or winds which move and operate within the subtle body, in my view. The mind, from its vantage in the subtle body, also interacts with the emotional center and most prominently the intellectual center. Unfortunately, when either center is undeveloped, or in some cases fairly non-existent, the mind ends up compensating, and then indulging in its various imaginings and negative emotions. This is the problem we all have in some way or another, up until Buddhahood.

The subtle body, I believe, is what is known in the Fourth Way as “life energy” (fa 96). In my opinion, the subtle body is more of a mass of energy or sheath, rather than an actual body for those of us who are starting out. With development, it can form to become what the Tibetans call the vajra body. But this is an accomplishment I have not achieved.

(It is my opinion that the fundamental nature of the mind — what the Gurdjieffians call “Attention” — is empty of a material nature, but, as the Buddhists say, “Luminous”, and innately pure. However, I believe that the imperfect so-called “energetic mind” that operates within the subtle body primarily, can also be gradually perfected; perfected through following the Buddhists’ highest level tantra. At its perfection, the energetic mind has Divine appearance.)

In doing the daily Work of self-evolution, it is also important to distinguish between the centers — intellectual, emotional, and physical — and the mind itself. The mind becomes dramatically calmer and much less a “monkey mind” after headway has been made in development of the various centers along with their corresponding bodies. The three higher bodies are actually a part of the subtle body; they are connected to the subtle body and can be considered to be higher levels of the subtle body.

I believe that the undeveloped subtle body is controlled to a large degree by the direct and indirect influences from the moon. These influences in turn move the gears of the monkey mind, in service to the moon’s needs or “wishes”. (This is derived from Gurdjieffian theory, along with my own meditations on Kalachakra theory.) Once the second body has been crystallized however, the subtle body and the mind then gradually move to reside within that higher body. The mind along with its subtle body then reside under the astral body’s auspices. All three consequently operate under the higher influence of the astral world, called “all planets” (see above), instead of under the influence of the moon. At this level the mind becomes what the Buddhists call “clearer”, or, that is, freer of obscurations.

“We have both an intuitive, emotional aspect and an intelligent, logical aspect. The emotional aspect corresponds exactly to the method side of the path and attaining the buddha’s form body (the activities of an enlightened being), whereas the logical aspect corresponds to the wisdom side and the buddha’s truth body (the wisdom aspect of an enlightened being).”

— Geshe Tashi Tsering, Relative Truth, Ultimate Truth

ARE GURDJIEFF’S FOUR BODIES BUDDHA BODIES?

"A practitioner of Yoga … should hold his mind on the five forms of the elements in their respective centers within the body. This is called dharana.”

— Trishikhibrahmanopanishad, mantra section 133 - 134

Are Gurdjieff’s four bodies Buddha Bodies? This is a question that can perhaps only be answered by a Buddhist, rather than a Gurdjieffian. Each follower of Gurdjieff is doing their best to achieve inner being, in accordance with the written and oral legacy Gurdjieff left us. However, the fully developed and perfected bodies are in actuality and in reality achieved, even to this current day, solely by the Buddhists, not by the Gurdjieffians.

I believe the problem in the modern-day Work, is that Gurdjieff’s system is stripped, intentionally or unintentionally, of an emphasis on what the Buddhists call “merit”. Gurdjieff does reference the way of the monk, as the second way, working with the emotional center. And Gurdjieff in his Beelzebub’s Tales does mention the importance of “faith, hope, and love”. But in that same work, he attests that these emotions (and presumably others like these) are withered and absent in mankind. Gurdjieff then relates that the development of conscience is the optimal way for mankind to progress. This emphasis on conscience and the de-emphasis of the higher, spiritual affections is also pronounced throughout Ouspensky’s In Search of the Miraculous. The current disciples of Gurdjieff as well all nearly universally fairly reject the intentional Work on the expression and development of the spiritual affections such as faith, hope, and love. I have never heard this ideal taught by Fourth Way leaders; but on the contrary “morality” as a concept is denigrated, and the development of conscience is emphasized instead exclusively.

So the practical result of this is that Gurdjieffian bodies are always described by contemporary practitioners in solely material terms, never as possessing any spiritual qualities. It is known generally that the astral body has something vaguely to do with the emotions; but there is never talk of evolving the emotions or emotional center. Same with the mental body and the intellectual center; intellectual evolution is not talked of.

The Buddhists are clear, however, in that they attest that the accumulation of merit & wisdom directly results in the eventual possession of the Buddha Bodies. A Buddhist strives consciously at developing the qualities of the ten perfections — prominent among them being compassion and loving-kindness. There is absolutely no doubt of this being of primary importance to a Buddhist.

The Gurdjieffians do have the concept of the development and elevation of knowledge and being; and also the measurement of those mentioned two on a scale. If this concept were taught in a practical way in the Work, using as a model and inspiration the Buddhist practical emphasis on merit and wisdom, then there would be indeed a spiritual development within the Gurdjieff bodies, in the contemporary followers of the Fourth Way.

Alternatively, it would serve Buddhists well, however, if they could admit to the existence of certain higher subtle substances as elements in the making up of each of the Buddha Bodies. It is advantageous to recognize that the elements and subtle elements do indeed have a nominal type of existence, and have a role to play in nirvana. In other words, “emptiness” is not the extreme of “nothingness”.

A PRACTICAL SOLUTION 

“Dharana is holding the Divine Spirit in consciousness during concentration.”

— Amritanadopanishad 15

One way of solving the problem of scale in Gurdjieffian bodies — of the emphasis on matter, and the de-emphasis of a higher scale of the so-called higher bodies — would be to start the development of the divine body early, from the very beginning of the Work. In a practical sense, the divine body is merely a collection of divine or holy qualities. It is the divine qualities which inject vertical height and scale — meaning  — into the Gurdjieff bodies. 

I’ve never ever in my memory heard anyone in the Work speak of the development of the divine body. But in reality, any virtue one can project upon a God or gods, can somehow be projected onto and become a part of oneself, too. But, as was said earlier, these qualities can not be “manufactured” through the activity of the “mind”. They must be genuine, they must emanate from and become a part of a center; and/or injected into the being-substance which makes up the higher body — the body which has formed around the centers.

Alternatively, the Buddhists, in visualizing the Bodhisattvas, could easily concentrate on experiencing within their minds the various qualities of each deity. For example, along with visualizing Chenrezi, a tantric could in meditation experience and practice the expression of Chenrezi’s compassion. After time, compassion hopefully would become an integral part of the tantric’s being. And by the time the practitioner had integrated a majority of Chenrezi’s qualities, he/she would effectively be at Chenrezi’s level, and perhaps even look like him, astrally.

And if a Gurdjieffian were to do something similar for each center at the nucleus of each of the three stories of every higher body, then he/she would measure up very well on the scale of knowledge and being. A higher body would not be merely a mass of substance that one senses, but a body with actual functions, as Gurdjieff defines the bodies to be. In other words, an astral body would be able to express higher emotions. And a mental body would have elevated consciousness and the ability to think higher thoughts.

But the key to developing functions within higher bodies is to develop the centers along with and as an integral part of the higher bodies. As a rule, though, evolution of centers is not currently taught anywhere by Foundation teachers, that I am aware of. The world needs teachers to start teaching the adoption and integration of the divine qualities into the substance of the first three bodies’ centers. It is the divine qualities of the first, second, and third bodies which collectively make up the divine body. And it is the skillful development and expression of the divine body which elevates a Gurdjieffian on the scale of being and knowledge; and which defines him/her as Gurdjieff’s “man number seven”: the perfected human.

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EPILOGUE: A CONVERSATION WITH DR. AZIZE, ON HIS BLOG

1. Eric Scott says:

   May 6, 2025 at 1:56 pm

   Hello Dr. Azize,

   I will stay out of the debate regarding whether Gurdjieff went to Tibet, or derived his system there from. But I am a Gurdjieffian as well as a Vajrayana practitioner. I find the system of ethics of the Mahayana to be a great addition to the Fourth Way system; because these ethics seem crucial to the formation of the emotional body. The Gurdjieffians attest to the accumulation of knowledge and being. And the Buddhists to the accumulation of merit and wisdom, to realize the Buddha Bodies.
   Unfortunately, I am doubtful if the realization of higher levels of being is an intentional Aim with most Gurdjieffians.

   I just came across your post just now. But I have two recent posts of my own concerning Buddhism and Gurdjeff, including one on Shambhala, on my blog: to-be-able.blogspot.com

   Reply
   1. Joseph Azize says:

      May 7, 2025 at 1:10 pm

      A nice eirenic statement. I had a look at your web site and what I read was thoughtful. I would put the conclusion differently. I doubt that it is possible for us ever to speak or write absolutely objectively about higher being bodies and real I, but in so far as it is possible, Gurdjieff’s is the closest yet. I would say that the Gurdjieff Work is only for a very few. It can never be a major societal religion like Buddhism. Much else is related to this, e.g. that Gurdjieff seeks accelerated results; but what I have said indicates the general direction.

      Reply
2. Eric Scott says:

   May 8, 2025 at 1:18 am

   Thank you, Dr. Azize, for your reply, and for checking my blog; I do appreciate it!

   In spite of the irony and ethical dissonance of engaging in an argument about higher being bodies, I find myself constantly dwelling on and speaking about the subject.

   In fact, to me higher bodies, once developed, seem to be the only Real part of a human being. Gurdjieff is constantly saying Man needs to realize his nothingness. And I believe that he means Man, in his normal unformed state, is a churning flux of random thoughts and emotions, all simply a response to external inputs.

   The cure for this inner disorganization is the formation of, through one’s own efforts, of something solid and reliably dependable within oneself, psychologically. 

   As Gurdjieff says, “Right work on oneself begins with the creation of a permanent center of gravity.” A solid, permanent center of gravity — if it happens to be an appropriate emotional or intellectual center — can be the seed around which a higher being body can develop. It’s no secret what substance the astral body itself is based on: re 96, or Gurdjieff’s “hanbledzoin”.

   However, amassing hanbledzoin by itself alone to form a higher being body is unsatisfactory. For, as Gurdjieff says, we can deduce the existence of a higher body through its “functions”, not through the substance it consists of. The astral body is an emotional body or instrument; thus its main function is to express emotions from the higher emotional center.

   That is the reason I said before that Buddhist Six Perfections can play an essential part in the formation and functioning of the astral body.

   The most impressive human being I ever encountered was my high Lama here in Seattle. He exhibited both an incredible ability to express the perfections, such as kindness and compassion, and he was also probably the highest intellect I’ve known. 

   Whether or not he actually possessed “higher bodies”, I am not sure. But he did possess highly developed emotional and intellectual centers. And even though Buddhists deny the so-called “self”, my Lama undoubtedly did possess Gurdjieff’s “Real I”.