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Tuesday, May 13, 2025

The Vedic Gods, Associated with the Body: An A. I. Answer

 QUESTION to A. I.:

In the Upanishads, various deities are associated with the senses or perhaps the elements of the human body. Can you list these, please?

ANSWER Gemini A. I.:

Yes, the Upanishads often draw profound correspondences between the microcosm (the human being, including senses and bodily functions) and the macrocosm (the universe and its governing deities). This was a way to understand the interconnectedness of all existence and to see the divine operating within oneself.

Here's a list of common associations found in various Upanishads, particularly texts like the Aitareya, Brihadaranyaka, Chandogya, and Prashna Upanishads. Keep in mind that there can be slight variations across different texts or interpretations.

Senses (Indriyas) and Associated Deities:

  1. Eye (Cakṣus) / Sight:

    • Āditya (the Sun): This is the most common association. The sun illuminates the world, enabling sight. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3.2.13 - though here it's the Purusha in the Sun)
  2. Ear (Śrotra) / Hearing:

    • Digdevatas (Deities of the Quarters/Directions of Space): Sound travels through space from all directions. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4)
    • Sometimes also generally associated with Ākāśa (Ether/Space) itself.
  3. Nose (Nāsikā) / Smell:

    • Ashvins (Twin Vedic deities, divine physicians): They are associated with breath and the nose. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4 in some interpretations where Vayu entering as breath is linked to them, or more directly Prithvi/Earth as the source of odors).
    • Prithvi (Earth): The earth is the source of most odors.
    • Sometimes Vāyu (Wind), as it carries smells.
  4. Tongue (Jihvā) / Taste (and sometimes Speech):

    • Varuṇa (Deity of Waters): Taste is perceived through moisture. (This is a common Puranic and later correspondence, but the Upanishads often link speech here).
    • Apaḥ (Waters): Similar to Varuna.
    • For speech aspect of tongue: Agni (Fire) – see below.
  5. Skin (Tvak) / Touch:

    • Vāyu (Wind/Air): The wind is what touches the skin and allows the sensation of touch. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4 where plants and trees, representing skin/hair, are associated with the tactile world Vayu governs).

Organs of Action (Karmendriyas) and Other Bodily Functions/Elements:

  1. Mouth / Speech (Vāk):

    • Agni (Fire): Fire is associated with speech and expression. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.6)
  2. Mind (Manas):

    • Chandra (the Moon): The mind is often seen as reflective and cool like the moon. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4)
  3. Breath (Prāṇa) / Nostrils (for breathing):

    • Vāyu (Wind/Air): Prana as the vital breath is directly the domain of Vayu. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4, Prashna Upanishad 2.9)
    • Prana itself is often elevated to the highest principle, sometimes equated with Brahman, and is considered the chief of all senses/functions, with other deities being subservient to it or aspects of it.
  4. Hands (Hastau) / Grasping:

    • Indra (King of Gods, associated with power and action): (e.g., Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3.2.13 - though here it is the Purusha in lightning/Indra)
  5. Feet (Pādau) / Locomotion:

    • Viṣṇu (The Pervader, known for his three strides): (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.2.4, though this is more about where the deity desired to enter, not explicitly the final residing)
  6. Heart (Hṛdaya):

    • The seat of the Ātman (Self) or Brahman. While deities reside in functions, the heart is often where the ultimate reality is said to dwell.
    • Chandra (Moon) can also be associated with the heart when the heart is considered the seat of the mind (Manas). (Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4 links mind to moon and heart to mind)
  7. Navel / Apāna (Downward Breath, Excretion):

    • Mṛtyu (Death): The apana is linked to the processes that lead to the decay and dissolution of the body. (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4)
  8. Generative Organ (Upastha) / Procreation:

    • Prajāpati (Lord of Creatures): The deity of procreation.
    • Apaḥ (Waters) or Retaḥ (Seed): (e.g., Aitareya Upanishad 1.1.4 links seed/waters to the generative organ)

Example from Aitareya Upanishad (1.1.4 & 1.2.4):

The Aitareya Upanishad provides a vivid account of the Cosmic Being (Purusha) being formed, and then deities seeking an abode in the human form. When the human form was created:

  • Fire (Agni) became Speech and entered the mouth.
  • Wind (Vayu) became Breath (Prana) and entered the nostrils.
  • Sun (Aditya) became Sight and entered the eyes.
  • Directions (Digdevatas) became Hearing and entered the ears.
  • Plants and Trees (representing sensation on skin) became Hairs and entered the skin.
  • Moon (Chandra) became Mind and entered the heart (as the seat of mind).
  • Death (Mrityu) became Apana (downward breath) and entered the navel.
  • Waters (Apaḥ) became Semen/Seed and entered the generative organ.

These correspondences were vital for Upanishadic practices like the antaragnihotra (internal fire sacrifice) or meditations where one identifies personal functions with cosmic powers, leading to a realization of unity with the divine.

Sunday, May 11, 2025

The “Breath-Wind Magicians” from the Early Upanishads: A Conversation with A. I.

An Excerpt from, “The Naturalistic Tradition in Indian Thought”; by Dale Riepe:

“The point of view represented by Uddalaka appears to have been that of the Breath-Wind Magicians who held, as opposed to their idealistic opponents, that the breath rather than thought or words was the most important element of the human being: briefly, a distinction between holding stuff rather than thought to be primary. Of such Breath-Wind Magicians who foreshadow the later clear-cut naturalistic outlook, there are at least eighteen among the one hundred thinkers mentioned in the oldest Upanishads. That would mean that roughly 18 per cent of the characters mentioned in compositions written before 626 B. C. tended toward a naturalistic interpretation of life. The more important of these include Ushasti, Baka, Kaushitaki, Raikva, Pratrda, Budkil, and Paingya. Ushasti, Budila, Baka, and Raikva are mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad; Kaushitaki, Paingya, and the Anonymous One, in the Kaushitaki Upanishad; and the same Budila, in the Satapathabrahmana. Ushasti and the other Breath-Wind Magicians believed in rather earthly deities and tried to explain phenomena in terms of the fluctuations of breath and air instead of supernatural activities.” 


QUESTION to A.I.:

….. The preceding quote is regarding a class of thinkers or “magicians” — breath-wind magicians — in the early Upanishads. Could you please research these “breath-wind magicians” and give me a rundown of their ideas and activities within the Upanishads?


GEMINI A.I.:

Okay, this is a fascinating quote and provides a specific lens through which to view certain Upanishadic thinkers. The author of your book categorizes a group as "Breath-Wind Magicians," emphasizing their focus on prana (breath or vital energy) and vayu (wind/air) as the fundamental principle of life, often in a way that could be seen as more "naturalistic" compared to purely idealistic philosophies focusing on thought or consciousness alone. The term "magician" likely refers to their profound understanding and perceived ability to influence or explain the world through these powerful, vital forces, rather than literal sorcery in most cases.

Let's explore the individuals mentioned and their ideas and activities as depicted in the early Upanishads, keeping in mind this "Breath-Wind Magician" framework:

General Characteristics of the "Breath-Wind Magicians" (as per the quote):

Primacy of Breath/Wind: They held that breath (prana/vayu) is the most important element in a human being and the cosmos, more so than thought (manas) or speech (vak).

Naturalistic Outlook: They tended to explain phenomena through the functions and fluctuations of breath and air, rather than relying solely on supernatural beings or activities for causation, though they acknowledged "earthly deities."

Contrast with Idealism: Their views were opposed to more purely "idealistic" schools that might have prioritized consciousness or abstract principles.

Esoteric Knowledge: Understanding and potentially manipulating prana was a source of power and insight, hence the "magician" label, suggesting a mastery over vital, subtle energies.

Here's a rundown of the mentioned figures and their likely connection to these ideas:

1. Ushasti Chakrayana (Chāndogya Upanishad I.10-11)

Role & Story: Ushasti is depicted as a learned but impoverished Brahmin during a famine. He confronts priests performing a sacrifice, challenging their knowledge of the deities to whom the chants are addressed. He reveals that if they chant without knowing the underlying deity, their "head would fall off."

Connection to Breath/Wind & Deities:

When asked which deity pertains to the prastava (introductory chant), he names Prana (Breath). He states, "Verily, all these beings enter into breath, and out of breath they arise."

For the udgitha (main chant), he names Aditya (the Sun) as the deity, which is closely linked to energy and life.

For the pratihara (concluding chant), he names Anna (Food), which sustains breath and life.

Thinking & Activity: Ushasti emphasizes the fundamental importance of Prana as the ultimate support and origin/destination of all beings. His knowledge gives him power over others in a ritual context. He links Prana to specific parts of the sacrifice, showing its centrality. The "earthly deities" aspect is seen in his identification of Prana, Aditya, and Anna as the presiding forces, which are more tangible or perceivable compared to an abstract, formless Brahman initially. His challenge to the priests suggests a deep, perhaps esoteric, understanding of the true meaning behind rituals, centered on vital forces.

2. Baka Dalbhya / Glava Maitreya (Chāndogya Upanishad I.12)

Role & Story: He is described as having gone to a quiet place to repeat the Vedas. A white dog appears, followed by other dogs, all asking the white dog to procure food for them by chanting. The white dog (interpreted by some as Baka himself or a symbolic representation) then begins the Hinkāra (a preliminary vocalization in Sama Veda chants) with the syllable "Om," and the dogs chant, "Om, let us eat! Om, let us drink!..."

Connection to Breath/Wind & Deities: This rather unusual story, known as the "dogs' udgitha," is often interpreted as a satire on priests who chant for material gain. However, it also subtly points to the life-sustaining aspect of chanting and its connection to basic needs, which are intrinsically linked to Prana (life energy). The sounds and chants themselves are carried by breath. While not directly about prana as a cosmic principle in the same way as Ushasti, the focus on the power of sound (produced by breath) for sustenance has a "naturalistic" or pragmatic undertone. The "earthly deities" here are not explicitly named, but the desire for food and drink reflects fundamental life needs.

Thinking & Activity: Baka's story highlights the power inherent in sacred utterances and their connection to life's basic necessities. It can be seen as an early exploration of the potency of sound and breath, perhaps hinting at practices that use sound for material or vital ends.

3. Kaushitaki (Kaushītaki Upanishad)

Role & Story: The Kaushītaki Upanishad is named after him, or perhaps a lineage. The text itself contains extensive discussions on Prana. Pratardana's dialogue with Indra (see below) is a key part of this Upanishad.

Connection to Breath/Wind: The Kaushītaki Upanishad is a primary source for doctrines exalting Prana.

It explicitly identifies Prana as Brahman (Kaush. Up. 2.1, 2.2).

It describes Prana as the chief among the vital functions (speech, sight, hearing, mind), stating that all others depend on it. When prana departs, all others depart.

It details the "Dialogue of the Vital Breaths" where prana proves its superiority over other senses/faculties.

The "Paryanka Vidya" (doctrine of the couch) in this Upanishad describes the soul's journey after death, where understanding Prana is crucial.

Thinking & Activity: Thinkers associated with the Kaushitaki school clearly elevated Prana to the highest philosophical status, equating it with the ultimate reality, Brahman. They engaged in detailed analysis of Prana's functions, its relationship to other senses, and its cosmological significance. This represents a profound systematization of "breath-centric" philosophy.

4. Raikva (Chāndogya Upanishad IV.1-3)

Role & Story: Raikva, known as "Raikva with the cart," is depicted as a seemingly humble man, found scratching his itches under a cart. King Janashruti Pautrayana, despite his generosity, is told by swans that his fame is less than Raikva's. Janashruti seeks him out to learn from him.

Connection to Breath/Wind: Raikva teaches that Vayu (Wind/Air) is the great "absorber" or "gatherer-unto-itself" (samvarga). "For when fire goes out, it goes into Vayu. When the sun sets, it goes into Vayu. When the moon sets, it goes into Vayu. When water dries up, it goes into Vayu. Vayu, verily, absorbs them all." He then extends this to the microcosm: Prana (Breath) is the absorber in the individual. "When a man sleeps, speech goes into Prana, sight goes into Prana, hearing goes into Prana, mind goes into Prana. Prana, verily, absorbs them all."

Thinking & Activity: Raikva's teaching provides a clear instance of explaining cosmic and individual phenomena through a natural element (Vayu/Prana). He establishes a direct analogy between the macrocosm (Vayu absorbing cosmic elements) and the microcosm (Prana absorbing bodily functions). This is a strong example of the "naturalistic" interpretation mentioned in the quote. He is sought out for his wisdom, which is tied to this understanding of Vayu/Prana as the ultimate absorbent principle.

5. Pratrda / Pratardana Daivodāsi (Kaushītaki Upanishad III)

Role & Story: King Pratardana comes to Indra's abode and is granted a boon. Pratardana wisely asks Indra to choose the boon that Indra deems most beneficial for mankind. Indra declares, "Prana, verily, is consciousness (prajñātman)... Meditate on me as life, as immortality."

Connection to Breath/Wind: Indra (a prominent "earthly deity" or a high god in the Vedic pantheon) reveals to Pratardana that Prana is Prajñātman (conscious self, intelligence-self). Indra states, "I am Prana... He who meditates on me as life, as immortality, reaches his full term of life in this world and obtains immortality and indestructibility in the heavenly world." The dialogue extensively explores how Prana is identical with consciousness and underpins all sensory functions and life itself.

Thinking & Activity: This section is a cornerstone of Prana-vidya (knowledge of Prana). Pratardana elicits from Indra the profound teaching that Prana is not just vital air but also the very essence of consciousness and immortality. This identifies Prana with the highest principle of individual existence and links it directly to a powerful deity, Indra, who embodies this vital force. This aligns with the "earthly deities" and the supreme importance of breath.

6. Budila Āshvatarāshvi (Chāndogya Upanishad V.19.1 & Shātapatha Brāhmana XI.6.2.1-10)

Role & Story (Chāndogya): In the context of the Vaishvanara Vidya (doctrine of the Universal Self), Budila, along with other sages, approaches King Ashvapati Kaikeya for instruction. Budila's specific contribution or question in this section of the Chāndogya is part of a larger dialogue about the nature of Atman Vaishvanara.

Role & Story (Shātapatha Brāhmana): The Shātapatha Brāhmana (a prose commentary on the Vedas, pre-dating but also overlapping with early Upanishads) contains a story where Budila Āshvatarāshvi discusses the Agnihotra sacrifice with sages. He is questioned about the nature of sleep and waking, and he explains that when a person sleeps, their speech, sight, mind, and hearing enter into prana, and upon waking, they re-emerge from prana. This is very similar to Raikva's teaching.

Connection to Breath/Wind: In the Shātapatha Brāhmana, Budila explicitly describes Prana as the entity into which all sensory and mental functions merge during sleep and from which they arise upon waking. This emphasizes Prana as the sustaining force of individual consciousness and faculties.

Thinking & Activity: Budila is presented as a knowledgeable sage participating in high-level philosophical discussions (Vaishvanara Vidya) and as an authority on the significance of Prana in the context of fundamental life processes like sleep and waking, as well as its connection to sacrificial understanding.

7. Paingya (Kaushītaki Upanishad & possibly the lost Paingya Upanishad)

Role & Story: Paingya is mentioned in the Kaushītaki Upanishad (e.g., 2.5 in some recensions) as a proponent of certain views, often related to prana or the relative importance of different vital functions. The "Paingya Rahasya Brahmana" or "Paingya Upanishad" is a lost text, but references to Paingya's doctrines exist.

Connection to Breath/Wind: Doctrines attributed to Paingya often center on the supremacy of Prana. For example, there's an account where different vital functions (speech, eye, ear, mind) depart one by one to see if the body can survive without them, but only when Prana begins to depart do all other functions weaken, thus establishing Prana's supremacy. This is a classic "dialogue of the vital breaths" motif found in several Upanishads.

Thinking & Activity: Paingya appears to be a significant figure in the lineage of thinkers who systematically argued for the primacy of Prana. His teachings likely involved illustrative stories and arguments to demonstrate Prana's foundational role in sustaining life and all other bodily and sensory functions.

8. The Anonymous One (in Kaushītaki Upanishad)

The Kaushītaki Upanishad contains many passages exalting Prana that are not attributed to a specific sage but are presented as established teachings. For example:

"Prana is indeed Brahman" (Kaush. Up. 2.1).

The detailed description of the "Prana Agnihotra" (Kaush. Up. 2.5 in some editions), an internalized "fire sacrifice" where one offers one's breath and speech to Prana, recognizing Prana as the recipient of all offerings. This is a powerful example of ritual internalization centered on breath.

The idea that all deities are manifestations of Prana, or that Prana is the life of the gods (e.g., Kaush. Up. 2.2, linking Prana to Indra and Prajapati).

Summary of Ideas and Activities:

The thinkers listed (and the anonymous teachings) engaged in:

1. Philosophical Inquiry & Debate: They actively questioned and debated the fundamental constituents of reality and human existence, often championing Prana/Vayu against other principles like mind or speech.

2. Observation of Natural Processes: Their emphasis on breath/wind suggests an observation of physiological processes (breathing, life, death, sleep) and natural phenomena (wind, sun, fire) to draw conclusions about the cosmos. This underpins the "naturalistic" label.

3. Cosmological Analogies: They frequently drew parallels between the microcosm (the individual human being and their Prana) and the macrocosm (the universe and Vayu/cosmic Prana), as seen with Raikva and Budila.

4. Reinterpretation & Internalization of Ritual: Some, like Ushasti, emphasized understanding the true deities (like Prana) behind rituals. The Prana Agnihotra in the Kaushītaki Upanishad is a prime example of internalizing external Vedic sacrifices into meditative practices focused on breath.

5. Teaching & Discipleship: Figures like Raikva, Ushasti, and those within the Kaushītaki tradition were sought out as teachers for their profound knowledge.

6. Association with Deities: They often linked Prana/Vayu to specific Vedic deities (Indra, Vayu, Aditya, Prajapati), interpreting these deities as personifications or controllers of these vital forces, thus connecting with "earthly" or at least more tangible divine powers.

7. Developing "Prana Vidya" (Science of Breath): Collectively, they contributed to a sophisticated body of knowledge about Prana, its functions, its control, and its philosophical implications. This "vidya" (knowledge/science) could be seen as the basis for the "magician" epithet, as mastery of this knowledge implied mastery over life's fundamental forces.

The term "Breath-Wind Magicians," as used by the author of your book, seems to aptly capture this group's focus on the tangible, vital, and powerful forces of breath and wind, often explaining life and the cosmos through their workings, and potentially engaging in practices that harnessed this understanding. Their approach was indeed a distinct and influential current within the diverse tapestry of early Upanishadic thought.


Wednesday, April 2, 2025

Shambhala

The Kingdom of Shambhala is a peripheral subject within the Kalacakratantra, a Highest Yoga Tantra of Tibetan Buddhism. The Kingdom is described as a quasi-mythical (some say real) region on Earth not far from Tibet. Shambhala is ruled by a succession of kings, kings who rule a populace all dedicated to the practice of the Kalacakratantra: the quick Path to Enlightenment.

 

Like in the popular classic movie, Shangri-La, Shambhala is not easy to find. The journey to this mythical Kingdom is said to be either by means of long, difficult, and dangerous travel; or alternatively through a rigorous process of inner, spiritual development.

 

FINDING THE INNER SHAMBHALA

 

“Now He (Jesus) was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

 

— Luke 17:20

 

In reality , like the “Kingdom of God”, the Kingdom of Shambhala, is somewhere nearby, close, yet in another dimension; accessible only via a particular inner spiritual development. Popular religious thought might consider one’s entry into paradise to be dependent upon obtaining a metaphorical golden ticket, a ticket maybe consisting of possessing the “correct belief”. However, there’s no shortcut for anyone getting past the essential hard work of mental/emotional introspection. There is no easy way around the journey’s first spiritual task: that of facing oneself and reflecting upon one’s own downfalls and shortcomings.

 

THE OUTER REFLECTS THE INNER

 

One thing that is essential to consider, when looking to find any spiritual location or higher-dimensional location, is that a place of refined spirituality is invariably also highly organized and structured in some way. The residents of any spiritual location would also have to invariably possess, in their inner make up, a reflection of the spiritual structure and organization of their outer paradise. There are no outlaws in paradise.

 

One could alternatively say, that when the internal spiritual structure of a person starts to gel or crystallize into an organized pattern, the outer environment of that same person — in a correspondence — begins to gel and crystallize spiritually, as well. In other words, The outer world starts to reflect that person’s improved inner reality.

 

THE WAY

 

This inner evolution resulting into entry into a new spiritual dimension can not be accomplished through any of our usual discursive thinking, or through our lower desires relating to the outer physical body.

 

The entry to a higher dimensional life begins first of all, with resisting against inner mechanicalness. It starts with work creating an inner friction, a struggle between ‘yes’ and ‘no’ within the framework of daily life. The journey starts with the effort to make good inner choices. This is the so-called “Spiritual Jihad”, or personal struggle with oneself.

 

Then next, the second leg of progression higher involves the creation of actual metaphysical “organs” or centers within the body. These are “centers of gravity” made from the raw  substances of emotion and thought. These are inner structures of feeling and thinking which amass — through hard spiritual work — more and more “Being and Knowledge”. The more Being and Knowledge one accumulates, the more spiritual and refined becomes one’s feeling and thinking. (“Being”, here, represents the evolution of the emotions; and “Knowledge” represents evolution of the intellect and consciousness.)

 

THE STRUCTURE OF OUR INNER & OUTER REALITY 

 

The Buddhists postulate a tripartite structure of Reality. That is, they say our world has three qualities, all bound together inseparably, but on three successively higher levels. The three qualities or levels are 1. Materiality or Desire 2. Function or Meaning, and 3. Spirit or Holiness.

 

The first aspect or quality of reality is what the Buddhists call the desire realm, which is the world where we live our everyday lives. Its disorganization reflects our inner confusion. It is a place of flux and impermanence, of inner and outer “no-self”.

 

The second dimensional aspect, that of function and meaning, correlates to what the Buddhists call the form realm. Form realm elements would include those same elements which the Mahayana Buddhists practice and struggle to accumulate: the six perfections (generosity, morality, patience, joyful effort, concentration, & wisdom).

 

When a human being has, through sustained effort, developed some inner structure, or rather, to put it another way, developed a maturity that incorporates the foregoing six qualities, then a corresponding higher, outer environment emerges in relation to that inner structure. The elements of the desire realm are then purified for that human being, and he/she at that time exists in the form realm.

 

The effort of creating an inner structure, in alignment with one’s higher aims, is known as the art of making a soul. And the first step in this process of construction is recognizing one’s own mental impermanence, the flux of one’s own thoughts and desires — all arising, abiding, and ceasing in reaction to the outer world. Once this realization dawns, then it becomes possible to create stable centers of feeling and thinking out of these fluid elements.

 

When the soul is built or created out of the spiritual elements of the form realm, and when it has finally been completed, then the form realm itself magically appears in the outer surrounding environment.

 

The third aforesaid dimension of Reality — that of Spirit or Holiness — is essentially what the Buddhists call the formless realm. It is called formless because within it there is no duality, no separation between subject and object, between the observer and the observed. And further, at this level man himself is divine.

 

HIGHER BODIES; HIGHER WORLDS

 

The Greek-Armenian teacher G. I. Gurdjieff spoke of the possibility of developing higher bodies; bodies evolved out of our inner mental/emotional potential. Each higher body is somehow connected to its corresponding higher world, each body effectively residing in each of these higher realms. Gurdjieff’s 4th and highest body, the “Divine Body”, when developed, exists in a divine segment of Reality: what the Buddhists denote as a pure realm or Buddha realm.

 

INCLUSIVE OF ALL

 

The Buddhist Tantrics do strive to achieve Buddhahood in one lifetime. But they strive not just for themselves. They create a virtual universe, or mandala, around themselves, encompassing all reality and all living beings. All sentient beings are then included in their infinitely radiating bliss and omniscience.

 

We all potentially live in our own slice of the Kingdom of Shambhala. Through inner struggle and a focused effort, our world can gradually shift into a more spiritual realm, into that ultimately pure dimension, just a hair’s breadth away from us. We can live in a universe of a different quality, only a single dimension distant from us.