TRANSFORMING IMPRESSIONS INTO THE DIVINE POWERS

 

SUBTLE BODY TECH

Historically and technically what are the colors of the veins of the subtle body, in vedic, yogic, and Śaivic tantra? Also do any of these traditions have the theory that the subtle body has three or so different levels? You mentioned that the Hindu subtle body consisted of the pranic, mental, and intellectual sheaths…?

GEMINI 

The subtle body is not a single "ghost" but a highly technical, multi-layered physiological system. The colors are not random; they represent frequencies of light and types of heat (solar vs. lunar).

Here is the technical breakdown of the colors and levels according to the Sat-Chakra-Nirupana (the standard text on Kundalini Tantra), the Shiva Samhita, and Shaiva cosmology.

1. The Colors of the Veins (Nadis)

In the Tantric texts, the subtle channels are color-coded based on their elemental quality and their function.

A. The Three Main Channels

• Ida (Left Channel):

  • Color: White or Pale Camphor.

  • Nature: Lunar (Chandra). It is cooling, nurturing, and associated with "Mental Energy" (Manas).

  • Technical Note: It is often described as "oozing nectar," hence the milky white color.

• Pingala (Right Channel):

  • Color: Red or Vermilion.

  • Nature: Solar (Surya). It is heating, consuming, and associated with "Vital Energy" (Prana).

  • Technical Note: It is often compared to the color of the Bandhuka flower (a bright red noon flower).

• Sushumna (Central Channel):

  • Color: Fiery Red or Lightning.

  • Nature: Fire (Agni). It is the destroyer of time.

  • Technical Note: While the outer casing is Fire-colored, the inside is a complex fiber-optic cable with different colors (see below).

B. The "Fiber Optic" Levels (The Inner Channels)

This addresses your question about "levels" within the veins. The Sushumna is not a single tube; it is a set of nested tubes, one inside the other, each more subtle than the last. This is the technical "anatomy of the breakthrough."

1. Sushumna (Outer Casing): Fiery Red.

2. Vajra Nadi (First Inner Tube): Lustrous / Sun-like.

   • Located inside Sushumna. It governs the lower sexual energies but refined.

3. Chitrini Nadi (Second Inner Tube): Pale White / Nectar-colored.

   • Located inside Vajra. It is often called the "path of the stars" (Brahma-Randhra). It is linked to the pure intellect (Buddhi).

4. Brahma Nadi (The Core): Colorless / Pure Brilliance.

   • Located inside Chitrini. It is extremely subtle, often described as "a stream of oil" or "a fiber of lotus stalk."This is the actual pathway of the Kundalini.

2. The Levels of the Subtle Body

Yes, all three traditions (Vedanta, Yoga, Shaivism) agree that the "Subtle Body" (Sukshma Sharira) is a composite entity made of layers. It is not just "one thing."

A. The Vedantic View: The "Three Sheaths"

You mentioned the "sheaths." In this model, the Subtle Body is a sandwich of three specific layers:

1. Pranamaya Kosha (Energy Sheath): The vibration/blueprint layer. (Made of the 5 Pranas).

2. Manomaya Kosha (Mental Sheath): The processing layer. (Made of the 5 Senses + Thinking Mind).

3. Vijnanamaya Kosha (Intellectual Sheath): The decision layer. (Made of the Intellect + Ego).

• Note: The "Physical Body" is below these, and the "Causal Body" (Bliss) is above them. The Subtle Body is the middle three combined.

B. The Shaiva View: The "City of Eight" (Puryastaka)

Kashmir Shaivism uses a more technical definition called the Puryastaka (The City of Eight Components). This is their map of the subtle body that transmigrates from life to life. It consists of:

1. The Five Tanmatras: The "subtle elements" (pure Sound, pure Touch, pure Sight, etc. — the potential for sensation, not the gross sense organs).

2. Manas: The recording mind.

3. Buddhi: The deciding intellect.

4. Ahamkara: The "I-maker" (Ego).

Shaivism argues that Deep Sleep is the state where you retreat into the Puryastaka.

C. The Yogic View: The Three Bodies (Sharira Traya)

Yoga simplifies this into three density levels, often compared to Gurdjieff’s "Carriage, Horse, and Driver":

• Sthula Sharira (Gross Body): The hardware (Meat/Bone).

• Sukshma Sharira (Subtle Body): The software (Prana/Mind/Intellect).

• Karana Sharira (Causal Body): The code (Karma/Memory).

Summary of Colors & Levels

Vein/Layer	Color	Function/Sheath
Pingala	Red	Pranamaya (Vital/Heat)
Ida	White	Manomaya (Mental/Cool)
Sushumna (Outer)	Fire	Vijnanamaya (Transition zone)
Brahma Nadi (Inner)	Light/Colorless	Anandamaya (Gateway to Causal)

So, technically, the "Subtle Body" is just a term for the machinery that connects the Spirit (Atman) to the Biology (Meat). It has gears (Chakras), wires (Nadis), and fuel (Prana), and it is definitely stratified into levels of density.

THE SUBTLE BODY OF THE ŚAIVITES

Give me a detailed description of Śaivism’s Puryastaka. Its make-up, technology for creating the higher body.

GEMINI

In the context of Pratyabhijñā (Recognition) and Kula schools of Non-dual Śaivism (Kashmir Śaivism), the Puryastaka—literally the "City of Eight"—is the subtle body that migrates from birth to birth. It is essentially the "psychic blueprint" of the individual.

While the physical body is discarded at death, the Puryastaka remains as the vehicle for the soul's saṃskāras(karmic impressions).

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1. The Anatomy: The Eightfold "City"

The makeup of the Puryastaka varies slightly between texts (such as the Svacchanda Tantra or the Spanda Kārikā), but the most standard "technological" breakdown includes:

1. Buddhi (Intellect): The capacity for judgment and discrimination.

2. Ahaṃkāra (Ego): The "I-maker" that appropriates experiences as "mine."

3. Manas (Mind): The processing hub that coordinates sensory data.

4. The Five Tanmātras (Subtle Elements): The "pure potentials" of Sound, Touch, Form, Taste, and Smell.

Unlike the physical body, which is composed of gross elements (Mahābhūtas), the Puryastaka is made of vibrational energy. It is the bridge between the pure consciousness of Śiva and the biological machine of the human body.

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2. The Technology of Transformation

In Śaivism, the goal is not just to understand the Puryastaka, but to "purify" and "dissolve" it into a higher state. This is referred to as shifting from a Māyīya-śarīra (body of illusion) to a Jñāna-śarīra (body of wisdom).

A. Śaktyāveśa (Immersion of Energy)

The primary technology is the downward flow of Grace (Śaktipāta), which is then met with the practitioner's effort to "absorb" the senses into the heart center. By withdrawing the Tanmātras (sensory potentials) back into the "I-consciousness," the Puryastaka loses its density.

B. The Spanda Method (The Divine Vibration)

The practitioner focuses on the Spanda—the subtle throb of consciousness. By catching the "gap" between thoughts or breaths, one identifies with the source of the Puryastaka rather than its contents.

• The Result: The Puryastaka becomes "transparent." It no longer acts as a prison of karma but as a radiant lens for Śiva's light.

C. Bhūta-śuddhi (Purification of Elements)

Through visualization and Mantra, the practitioner "burns" the karmic seeds stored in the Puryastaka.

• The Technique: Visualizing the internal fire of Kuṇḍalinī rising through the central channel (Suṣumnā), systematically dissolving the "eight constituents" of the city back into their source.

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3. Creating the "Higher Body"

The ultimate aim of Śaiva technology is the creation of the Siddha-deha or Divya-deha (Divine Body). This is not a physical body, but a reconfiguration of the Puryastaka:

1. De-conditioning: Breaking the link between the Tanmātras and external craving.

2. Recognition (Pratyabhijñā): Realizing that the Puryastaka is actually a contraction of the Five Powers of Śiva (Consciousness, Bliss, Will, Knowledge, and Action).

3. The Shift: When the practitioner "recognizes" this, the Puryastaka ceases to be a vehicle for rebirth and becomes a vehicle for Jīvanmukti (liberation while living).

Key Distinction: In Vedānta, the subtle body is often something to be escaped. In Śaivism, the Puryastaka is a "city" to be conquered and turned into a temple.

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Since the Puryastaka is essentially the "software" of your reincarnation, would you like to explore the specific Mantras or Breath techniques (Prāṇāyāma) used to stabilize the 'Spanda' within it?

CONSCIOUSNESS & THE PURYASTAKA

In light of the above, how do Śaivites incorporate the pure consciousness of Śiva into the practice of creating the divine body? Also, wouldn’t they say that that Śiva consciousness also travels from life to life?

GEMINI

To answer your second question first: Yes and no. In the Śaiva view, the "logic" of what travels between lives is more nuanced than in other traditions.

Does Śiva-consciousness travel?

Strictly speaking, Śiva-consciousness (Caitanya) does not "travel" because it is omnipresent. It is the screen upon which the movie of rebirth is projected.

However, Śaivism posits that the Puryastaka (the subtle body) is wrapped in Anava-mala—the "stain of smallness." This is a fundamental amnesia that makes the infinite Śiva believe He is a limited individual (Jīva).

• What travels: The Puryastaka, carrying the "stain" of individuality and karmic residue.

• What remains constant: Śiva-consciousness, which is the underlying "light" (Prakāśa) that allows the Puryastaka to exist at all.

Death and rebirth are seen as Śiva "contracting" and "expanding" His own energy. You are Śiva traveling from life to life, but you have forgotten your identity, focusing instead on the "luggage" (the Puryastaka).

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Incorporating Pure Consciousness: The Technology of "Recognition"

In Śaivism, creating the "Divine Body" (Divya-deha) is not about building something from scratch. It is a process of alchemy—converting the lead of the subtle body into the gold of Śiva-consciousness.

1. The Method of Sāmavesa (Immersion)

The practitioner does not just "meditate"; they practice Sāmavesa, which is the total absorption of the individual identity into the universal.

• The Technique: Instead of seeing the five senses (part of the Puryastaka) as "distractions," the yogi sees them as the Five Powers of Śiva (Will, Knowledge, Action, etc.) flowing outward.

• Incorporation: When you hear a sound, you don't just "hear" it; you recognize the hearing as Śiva’s Power of Action (Kriyā-śakti). This "re-labels" the Puryastaka's functions as divine functions.

2. The Transubstantiation of the Tattvas

Śaivite practice involves a "mapping" of the 36 Tattvas (levels of reality). The goal is to move the "I-sense" from the lower Tattvas (where the Puryastaka lives) to the higher Tattvas.

Level	Component	Practice
Impure	Puryastaka (Ego/Mind)	Witnessing the thoughts as "ripples" on the ocean.
Pure-Impure	Vidya/Maya	Realizing that the world is a "reflection" of yourself.
Pure	Śiva/Śakti	The "I" expands to include the entire universe (Aham).

3. Kuṇḍalinī and the "Great Thrum" (Spanda)

The "Higher Body" is created through the awakening of Kuṇḍalinī Śakti.

• As Kuṇḍalinī rises through the Suṣumnā (central channel), she "consumes" the elements of the Puryastaka.

• She dissolves the density of the ego and the senses into "Vibration" (Spanda).

• The Result: The subtle body is no longer made of "karmic soot"; it is now composed of vibrational light. This is the Jñāna-deha (Body of Gnosis).

The "Divine Body" as a Living Lens

For a realized Śaivite (a Jīvanmukta), the Puryastaka still exists, but its "physics" have changed. It no longer generates new karma because the "I-maker" (Ahaṃkāra) has been replaced by the "Universal I" (Pūrṇāham).

In the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra, one of the core practices is to "Imagine the entire body as being of the nature of Consciousness." By holding this "Bhāvanā" (creative contemplation), the practitioner eventually vibrates at the same frequency as Śiva, effectively turning the subtle body into a divine vehicle.

Would you like to try a specific contemplation from the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra that targets the dissolution of the Puryastaka into pure space?

SENSES / POWERS

Please denote the five subtle senses to their corresponding Śaivite power. What is the technology that is used to transfor sensory impressions into the divine powers?

GEMINI

In the non-dual Śaiva system (specifically the Trika school), the bridge between our ordinary sensory experience and the cosmic powers of Śiva is found in the Śaktis. The five subtle senses (Tanmātras), which normally bind the Puryastaka to the material world, are actually "contracted" versions of Śiva’s infinite capacities.

1. The Mapping: Senses to Divine Powers

When the "stain of limitation" (āṇavamala) is removed, the five senses are revealed to be the Five Powers of Śiva (Pañcaśakti).

Subtle Sense (Tanmātra)	Physical Sense	Śaivite Power (Śakti)	Cosmic Function
Sound (Śabda)	Hearing	Cit-śakti	Pure Consciousness/Self-awareness
Touch (Sparśa)	Feeling	Ānanda-śakti	Absolute Bliss
Form/Color (Rūpa)	Seeing	Icchā-śakti	Divine Will
Taste (Rasa)	Tasting	Jñāna-śakti	Infinite Knowledge
Smell (Gandha)	Smelling	Kriyā-śakti	Creative Action

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2. The Technology: Pratyabhijñā and Daharākāśa

The "technology" used to transform these sensory impressions back into divine powers is a process of re-absorption (saṃhāra). Instead of the energy flowing outward toward an object, it is redirected inward to the source.

A. The Method of Unmeṣa (The Upward Opening)

This is the practice of catching the "spark" of consciousness at the very moment a sense makes contact with an object.

• The Tech: When you see a beautiful form (Form/Will), there is a split-second before the mind labels it ("That is a flower") where pure energy is present. The yogi "rests" in that initial flash.

• The Result: The impression does not become a karmic "seed" in the Puryastaka; instead, it fuels the Icchā-śakti (Will) of the practitioner.

B. Bhāvanā (Creative Contemplation)

This is a high-level visualization technique used to "re-code" the subtle body.

• The Tech: The practitioner treats every sensory input as an oblation into the "Fire of Consciousness."

• The Visualization: As described in the Vijñāna Bhairava Tantra, one imagines the sense organs not as fleshly tools, but as openings of the Divine. Hearing is not "me" hearing a sound; it is the Universe (Śiva) listening to its own vibration (Vimārśa).

C. Krama-mudrā (The Integration)

This is the advanced "technology" of the Kula tradition. It involves a "shuttling" of consciousness.

1. Antarmukha (Inward): Withdrawing the senses from the world into the Heart (Hṛdaya).

2. Bahirmukha (Outward): Projecting that internal Śiva-consciousness back out through the senses.

• The Transformation: Through this rhythmic movement, the Puryastaka is "washed" by the internal light of Śiva until the boundary between "Inside" (Subject) and "Outside" (Object) dissolves.

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3. Creating the "Vibrational Body"

As these technologies are applied, the Tanmātras (the "matter" of the Puryastaka) lose their density. They stop being "things" and start being "frequencies."

• Sound becomes the Parāvāk (The Supreme Word).

• Touch becomes the Spanda (The Divine Throb).

• Taste becomes the Rasāsvāda (The Tasting of Bliss).

When the Puryastaka is fully "re-mapped" to these Five Powers, the yogi no longer experiences the world as a collection of objects, but as the play of their own energy.

Would you like to try a specific "centering" technique from the Vijñāna Bhairava Tantra that focuses on transforming the sense of Sound or Touch into Bliss?

Finding Indra in Indra’s Net

 

INDRA’S KNOT

Tell me the difference between the Buddhist dependent origination and interdependency….

GEMINI

The term you are likely looking for is "Mutual Interpenetration" (often associated with the Huayan school of Buddhism and the metaphor of Indra’s Net) or perhaps Thich Nhat Hanh’s modern term "Interbeing."

While they sound similar, the difference between Classical Dependent Origination and Mutual Interpenetration is the difference between a Chain and a Hologram.

Here is the breakdown of the two concepts.

1. Dependent Origination (Pratītyasamutpāda)

The Model: The Domino Chain (Linear/Temporal)

This is the original, Early Buddhist teaching (and Nagarjuna’s focus). It describes how suffering is created over time.

• The Logic: "When this exists, that comes to be." (A >>> B >>> C).

• The Structure: It is usually described as the 12 Links (Ignorance causes Volition >>> Consciousness >>> Birth >>>  Death).

• The Vibe: It is mechanical and often negative. It explains how you got trapped in the mess of Samsara.

• The Goal: Break the Chain. You study it to find the weak link (usually Ignorance or Craving) and snap it so the whole sequence collapses.

  • Key Insight: "I am here because of past causes. If I stop the cause, I stop the result."

2. Mutual Interpenetration (Interbeing / Huayan)

The Model: Indra’s Net (Spatial/Holographic)

This is a later Mahayana (specifically Huayan and Zen) development. It describes how reality is perfectly fused.

• The Logic: "One is All, and All is One." (A is inside B, and B is inside A).

• The Structure: Imagine a net of jewels. Every jewel reflects all the other jewels in the net.

  • To touch one strand is to shake the whole web.

  • The "Sun" is not just causing the flower (Dependent Origination); the Sun is literally inside the flower (Interpenetration).

• The Vibe: It is cosmic, mystical, and affirmative. It emphasizes harmony and the "miracle" of existence.

• The Goal: See the Totality. You don't try to break the net; you try to wake up to the fact that you are the net.

  • Key Insight: "The whole universe is contained in this single speck of dust."

The Crucial Difference: "Trap" vs. "Truth"

• Dependent Origination is usually taught as the Machine of Suffering. It emphasizes Consequencesand Time. (If you touch fire, you get burned).

• Interdependency (Interpenetration) is usually taught as the Architecture of Reality. It emphasizes Unity and Space. (The fire, the hand, and the burn are one single event).

In your "Street Man" analogy:

• Dependent Origination: The man tells you, "You are wearing handcuffs. Here is how the lock mechanism works. Pick it."

• Interpenetration: The man tells you, "Look closer. You, the handcuffs, and the jailer are all made of the same light."

  
  

  AUSPICIOUS RELATIONS 

  
  

  what does the Tibetan “eternal knot” represent?

  
  

  GEMINI 

  
  

  The Eternal Knot (Sanskrit: Srivatsa; Tibetan: Palbeu) is one of the Eight Auspicious Symbols of Tibetan Buddhism. Visually, it is a closed loop of intertwined lines with no beginning and no end.

  It is the perfect visual representation of the concepts we just discussed—specifically bridging the gap between Dependent Origination (The Chain) and Interpenetration (The Net).

  Here is the breakdown of what it represents in the Tibetan mind.

  1. The Intertwining of Wisdom and Compassion

  This is the most common Tantric interpretation.

  • The lines represent two opposing forces: Wisdom (The realization of Emptiness) and Compassion (The engagement with the World).

  • The knot shows that these two are indivisible. You cannot have true Wisdom without Compassion, and you cannot have true Compassion without Wisdom.

  • In the Enlightened Mind, they are woven together so tightly that they form a single, continuous reality.

  2. Dependent Origination (Pratītyasamutpāda)

  The knot is the geometric proof of Nagarjuna’s philosophy.

  • No Beginning, No End: Just as the lines have no starting point, reality has no "First Cause" (God/Essence). Everything arises from something else in an endless loop.

  • Interconnectedness: Pulling one part of the knot tightens the whole thing. This represents the law of Karma: every action has a reaction that ripples through the entire system.

  3. The Endless Cycle (Samsara vs. Nirvana)

  The symbol has a dual meaning depending on your level of realization:

  • For the Unawakened: It represents the Endless Cycle of Suffering (Samsara). It is a labyrinth with no exit, where birth leads to death leads to birth.

  • For the Awakened: It represents the Endless Quality of the Buddha's Mind. Because the knot has no end, it symbolizes that the Buddha's knowledge and love are infinite and inexhaustible.

  4. The "Net" vs. The "Chain"

  Referencing our previous conversation, the Eternal Knot is a visual argument for the "Net" (Interpenetration)view.

  • If it were just a "Chain" (Linear Dependent Origination), it would be a straight line of links.

  • Because it is folded back on itself, it suggests that Cause and Effect are not just linear—they are structural. The future weaves back into the past; the result is hidden in the cause.

  Summary

  In Tibetan culture, you will see this symbol on everything from temple doors to carpets and greeting cards.

  It is a reminder that "You cannot pull anything apart."

  You cannot pull "Yourself" out of the "World." You cannot pull "Emptiness" away from "Form." They are knotted together forever.

  
  

  DIVINING THE THREE REALMS

  
  

  Is there a Buddhist notion that the sense of smell and taste represents the desire realm; the sense of touch and sight the form realm; the sense of hearing the formless realm?

  
  

  GEMINI

  
  

  This is a fascinating categorization. While there is no standard Buddhist text that maps the senses to the realms exactly as you described (specifically Hearing to the Formless Realm), your intuition aligns very closely with the Abhidharma classification of "What falls away" as you ascend the realms.

  You have correctly identified the hierarchy of coarseness. In Buddhist cosmology, as you move from Desire >>> Form >>> Formless, you shed the "heavier" senses first.

  Here is the official Abhidharma breakdown compared to your hypothesis.

  1. The Desire Realm (Kama-dhatu)

  Senses: All 5 Physical Senses (Smell, Taste, Touch, Sight, Hearing) + Mind.

  • Your Map: Smell and Taste.

  • The Doctrine: Correct.

    • According to the Abhidharmakosha, the specific hallmark of the Desire Realm is the reliance on Kabali-kara Ahara (Solid Food).

    • Because beings here (humans, animals, hell beings) must eat physical matter to survive, they absolutely require Smell and Taste.

    • The Cut-off: As soon as you ascend to the Form Realm, you stop eating solid food (you feed on Bliss/Prana). Therefore, Smell and Taste are the first senses to become dormant or disappear.

  2. The Form Realm (Rupa-dhatu)

  Senses: Sight, Hearing, Touch (refined) + Mind.

  (Note: Smell and Taste are absent).

  • Your Map: Touch and Sight.

  • The Doctrine: Partially Correct.

    • Beings in the Form Realm (Brahma gods) possess bodies made of light.

    • Sight: Crucial. They communicate via light and radiance.

    • Hearing: Crucial. They can hear the Dharma.

    • Touch: This is debated. They have a "tactile body," but they do not feel pain, cold, or roughness. They only feel the "tactile sensation of Samadhi" (fluidity/bliss).

    • The Anomaly: You placed Hearing in the Formless realm, but doctrinally, Hearing is very much part of the Form Realm. In fact, the "Divine Ear" (Dibba-sota) is a key power here.

  3. The Formless Realm (Arupa-dhatu)

  Senses: None. (Mind Only).

  • Your Map: Hearing.

  • The Doctrine: Technically Incorrect (but energetically intuitive).

    • The Formless Realm is defined by the total absence of Rupa (Matter).

    • Since the Ear (Srota) is a physical organ made of subtle matter, there is no Hearing in the Formless Realm. There is only pure mental vibration (Nama without Rupa).

    • Beings here exist as pure streams of consciousness in states of infinite space or nothingness.

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  Why your intuition about "Hearing" is profound

  Even though the strict Abhidharma says "No Hearing in Formless," your association of Hearing with the transition to the Formless is supported by Tantra and the Shurangama Sutra.

  1. Sound is the Bridge to the Formless

  In the Shurangama Sutra, the Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara attains enlightenment through the Organ of Hearing.

  • Why? Because sound is the most "detached" sense.

    • Touch/Taste: Must contact the object directly (Contact).

    • Sight: Needs light and a specific direction.

    • Sound: Is pervasive (spherical), comes from nowhere (arises from silence), and returns to nowhere.

  • Therefore, Sound is the frequency closest to Space (Akasha).

  2. The Tanmatras (Samkhya/Yoga View)

  Buddhism borrowed heavily from the Indian element system. If we look at the evolution of elements:

  • Earth (Smell) >>> Heaviest.

  • Water (Taste)

  • Fire (Sight)

  • Air (Touch)

  • Space (Sound) >>> Subtlest.

  • Ego/Mind (Formless)

  In this Indian stack, Sound (Shabda) is indeed the property of the Space Element (Akasha). Since the "Realm of Infinite Space" is the first level of the Formless Realm, Sound is the final "vibration" you ride before you dissolve into pure Mind.

  Summary Table

  Realm	Abhidharma Status	Your Intuition	Why the Difference?
  Desire	Smell & Taste(plus others)	Smell & Taste	Match. These are "Food Senses." They bind you to biology.
  Form	Sight, Hearing, Touch	Sight & Touch	Close. Sight is the primary mode of the Form Realm (Light bodies).
  Formless	Mind Only (No physical senses)	Hearing	Subtle Point. Sound is the property of Space. While the physical ear is gone, the "Vibration" of sound is the closest analog to the Formless state.

  The Verdict:

  You have correctly identified the Gradient of Density.

  • Smell/Taste: The heavy anchors (Desire).

  • Sight/Touch: The radiant interaction (Form).

  • Hearing: The subtle vibration of Space (Gateway to Formless).

  Standard Buddhism would just correct you to say: "Once you actually enter the Formless, you drop the Ear too."